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On Apl. 4, 2010 an e-Bay listing re Sunderland plaques expired on e-Bay. It was not the normal e-Bay listing since
absolutely nothing was for sale. Rather it was an attempt by the
'vendor' to draw attention to the scams that are commonplace
respecting Sunderland plaques - i.e. over-painting them to enhance their apparent value.
This page preserves the listing content as it was. Since it deserves to continue to be available.
Fake Sunderland lustre plaque – information only
listing
This is an information only listing. The plaque in the photo is NOT FOR SALE so please don't
bid.
Over the last few years, many genuine Sunderland
lustre items – jugs, bowls and plaques – with fake
over-painted enamels have been listed on eBay.
How would you know if you've bought
one?
Genuine Victorian enamelling was done in broad brushstrokes or washes over the top of
the transfer. The items with recent fake painting, like the plaque in the photo
above, are coloured in too neatly, leaf by leaf.
The particular green and orangey brown on this plaque
were NEVER used by Victorian potters on lustreware
items. If you see a plaque, bowl or jug, with a similar green or
orange/brown (the faker often uses this colour on the sails of ships), tread
with caution. Even a seller's high feedback rating does not guarantee
authenticity.
Recently I've seen a bowl and a plaque with fake anchors painted on them. If you've recently bought a
bowl with an anchor, for instance, check the seller's buying history. Perhaps the same bowl
will be there and you can see how it looked before the anchor was painted on
it.
An eBay tip. If you suspect a seller is bidding up
his/her own items, check their history for regular buyers. Click on the buyer
in the history, and you'll be able to see how much of their activity is with
that one seller. This can be reported to eBay as 'shill bidding'.
Other items have been painted with pink gloss paint to conceal rubbed lustre, and yet are listed as restoration
free. You can tell if you've bought one, by scraping the pink paint with your
fingernail. Real lustre is under the glaze and will not come off.
Unfortunately, collectors have paid high premiums for
items they believed to be genuinely well coloured. Many people have paid
much more for items than they are worth.
To prevent other people being taken in, I've listed
photos on the Mate Sound the Pump blog page, which can be found easily through
an internet search. (Webmaster's Comment:- Here)
Please take time to read through the many comments
below, now on their second page. Many people have been affected one way or
another by this issue.
Please contact me if you want advice about a suspect
item. (Webmaster's Comment:- Via here)
***The faked plaque with anchors has thankfully been
removed from eBay.***
***A change is as good as a rest, so I've updated with a
new photo, to show how fake enamels would appear on the sails of a ship. This
orange brown colour was NEVER used on the sails of ships by Victorian potters. Sails were either painted yellow, or left white. This applies to jugs as well
as plaques.***
***The jug sold for £87, far less than the same item
without over-painting would have realised. It received no bids in the last 5
days.***
Did you know that you
can leave follow up comments to feedback already
left?
Click on 'Community' at the top right of
the screen.
Click on 'Feedback
forum'.
Click on 'Follow up comment to feedback
left'.
Choose the comment you wish to follow up
on.
Write the comment in the box and press 'Leave
follow up comment'.
It takes less than a minute.
***The seller has withdrawn his
Mariner's arms jug, which, to my eye, had a combination of genuine and fake
enamels.
A buyer who previously
left positive feedback has added a follow up comment as
above.***
***A second buyer has left a
follow up comment.***
The questions &
answers that were submitted by e-Bayers re the listing:-
13) hello again - could i ask your opinion on a certain 12-sided child's mug currently on
offer? on another point, i have asked several sellers for pics of the bases of
items which always seem to be missing from questionable listings - i've never
had a reply from any of them!!!
matesounthepump2010's response.
The mug was also over-painted in
my view. In other people's too, as it received no further bids, and sold for
much less than it would have otherwise. You're right to ask about the bases of
items if you're unsure. Grey's pottery reproductions have a printed mark. One
buyer reported that he'd received a jug recently with the Grey's mark scraped
off the base. Buyers shouldn't get too hung up about this though, as the Grey's
repros are mostly identifiable enough, with or without the marks.
12)
Hi,
thanks for this. As I'm sure you know, but others may not, our 'enterprising'
friend also has a lucrative line in Staffordshire figures; he is especially keen
on cow creamers. And how fortunate he is to have several such loyal buyers.
matesounthepump2010's response. Thanks. Yes I did hear from
someone else that this seller's efforts were 'primarily' focused on tarting up
Staffordshire figures. He said that he was known to the local auction houses 'of
old'. I must admit I've seen fewer of these though. I'd be happy to receive
photos if anybody has them.
11)
Thank
you for revealing this. I have long had suspicions of this seller. Can we not
get Ebay to explain why it does not respond to complaints about the raud?
matesounthepump2010's response. eBay have a collection of
standard replies they send to complainants. One of them states that the measures
they take might not be visible, and for confidentiality reasons they can't
discuss what they've done. When the seller continued to list fake items and bid
them up himself, I complained again and pressed to speak to a named individual.
This time I was told that eBay wouldn't take action if a seller had a clean
feedback record. Two well-respected experts on 19th century ceramics have also
written to eBay in support of my complaint, and neither has received more than a
standard reply.
10)
hi -
someone has a ship jug for sale at present with this fake overpainting you
describe- i then checked out feedback for another sunderland item they had sold
and that buyer's feedback is ALL from this seller - i smell a big fat rat -
thank you for the warning!!!
matesounthepump2010's response. The seller of the ship jug
removed a plaque with 4 anchors he had listed, earlier today.
9)
Hi. Many
thanks for all the advice you have given but if "Dealers" offer you a discount
rather than getting a negative feedback, Are they not addmitting "FRAUD".
matesounthepump2010's response. It's an interesting question. The
dealer in question claims ignorance and says he bought the items in this
condition. The before and after photos on the internet (see mate sound the pump)
prove this to be a lie.
8)
thank
you for exposing the scam , please name the cheats, so they can be avoided.
matesounthepump2010's response. I fear that would controvene
eBays rules, and this listing might be removed. However, look at the Sunderland
lustre currently for sale on eBay and compare the colours with the plaque I've
listed. For instance, a plaque/jugs/mug, might look wrong to you. You could also
do a wider search and find out what people are saying on Sunderland plaque
blogs.
7)
Hi there
- I think what must be remembered here is that not all dealers are crooks and in
fact, they have often bought the Lustre items in good faith from the AUCTION
HOUSES. They are the ones who have been cheated in the first place. These lustre
items are all too often listed in Auction Houses catalogues as 19thCentury. The
auctions these days are selling more and more repro items and you have to be
very clever not to be caught out by them. Staffordshire figures are the same. If
in doubt, don't buy.
matesounthepump2010's response. Some of my best friends are
dealers (as the saying goes), so I've certainly nothing against those making an
honest trade. I agree about auction houses. A dealer buying a repro and listing
it as original in good faith is one thing. A dealer buying a drab item and
decorating it to appear more saleable, then listing it as restoration free, is
quite another.
6)
I bought
a bowl which had been overpainted and after you contacted me I appraoched the
seller and was given a large discount. I have not bought any lustre since.
matesounthepump2010's response. Thanks for contacting me again.
I'm glad you got a large discount. That's great if you like the item, and are
confident using paint stripper (many of the items over-painted have a strong
commercial value, if only they'd been left alone!). If buyers can't live with
what they've bought though, they should be firm about 100% refund and postage
costs.
5)
matesounthepump2010, I do hope that e-Bay will agree with me when I
thank you for this this 'not for sale' item. For bringing attention to a matter
that deserves to be better known. But how to fix the basic problem? I would like
to think that e-Bay would investigate any complaints on such an issue. A
pro-active e-Bay response is required - awaiting negative feedback is surely not
enough. Since most e-Bay purchasers are not pottery experts & may never know
that the item that they acquired is the result of trickery, let alone find out
in time to leave negative feedback. But what use is negative feedback? When the
vendor can simply set up another e-Bay moniker & cheat the public ad
infinitum. What is needed is for e-Bay, once it finds that the vendor is
crooked, to deny him an e-Bay account via his electronic computer address. I can
see no other way. And in the meantime, the vendor is laughing. Mainly at e-Bay,
alas. But also at the unsuspecting buyers of his items. Peter
matesounthepump2010's response. Thanks for your response. I
couldn't agree more. In the end it makes business sense. If buyers trust eBay's
anti fraud procedures, they'll feel more inclined to bid.
4)
I have
seen these lustre items which have been ENHANCED on Ebay and got stuck myself.
They are even more difficult to spot when the photos are poor, and have shadows
and/or light reflection. Keep up the detective work. e penna
matesounthepump2010's response. Thanks. The issue has obviously
infuriated many people, judging by the responses I've received.
3)
What a
great idea to list this FAKED up plaque. Several of these dodgy plaques have
been listed on Ebay in the past. It is very sad that some people entering this
rubbish on Ebay need to deceive sincere buyers. I hope that your listing
succeeds in warning buyers to watch out for these "enhanced " items in the
future.
matesounthepump2010's response. Thanks very much for your
support.
2)
Thanks
for posting this info. A friend of mine bought a plaque that was heavily
overpainted. How do these sellers who are basically criminal, get away with
it?
matesounthepump2010's response. I've reported the problem to
eBay, but they will only take action if the seller has received negative
feedback. As he mostly offers refunds, buyers are reluctant to leave negative
comments.
1)
I have
seen some before and after images of plaques which have been "enhanced",
initially sold plain on eBay and then reappearing a bit later with the colouring
added. Is the plaque you illustrate one of these?
matesounthepump2010's response. Yes, that's right I purchased it
a few years ago. By my estimation there must be more than 200 items with fake
over-painting out there. I've spoken to people in the UK and the US who have
bought them.
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